This Mat & Chat was hosted on on Instagram Live on Saturday, October 24th. The chat followed a 25 minute mat workout.
Victoria: One of my favorite parts of Mat & Chat is having people coming on to show how they teach! So it’s a showcase of their teaching style and what they specialize in. When Lori was like: “I was thinking of doing Wunda for the mat!” I was like- “Um, yes- bring it. I really want to do this.” So I’m really happy that we did it- honestly like I said, it flew by! I don’t know how it was already 25 minutes! So thank you so much for joining us.
Lori: Thank you for being game for Wunda on the mat! You were awesome- you’re so strong.
Victoria: Of course! So for those of you who are just tuning in, below me is Lori Shipp, and she is a classical instructor in Raleigh, North Carolina. Lori mentioned at the very beginning, but we are going to talk about it further now, that she got into Pilates actually on a whim in college. I love when people’s introduction to Pilates is not from dance. And it’s amazing if you’re a dancer and that’s how you found Pilates, but I find the stories to be much more interesting when it’s like: “Well, I was jut wandering campus” or “OH, I broke my ankle!” I don’t know. I like hearing about it when people don’t have a dance background. So let’s go back and talk about that a little bit further- you can tell us about that. You went to college, you had never heard of Pilates before? Or you had heard of it? Or what.
Lori: I had heard of it. My first intro to Pilate was Mari Winsor’s DVDs on the carpet of my parent’s house when I was in high school.
Victoria: Right!! How could I forget.
Lori: Susannah was obviously-
Victoria: Susannah Cotrone!! Is she still watching? She was a featured body- front row.
Lori: Susannah- if you are still watching- high school, 15-year-old Lori was trying to be you. I wanted all my teasers to be your teasers, and I could never do them. I fell in love with how Pilates-
Victoria: Who can do Susannah Cotrone’s teasers!? Let’s be real *laughs*
Lori: Good point.
Victoria: Even now, I’m like- uhhh.
Lori: That latest grand rond de jambe she posted? Amazing.
Victoria: I already sent it to clients. I DM’d them, like: “This is what you should look like.” *laughs* Just kidding. Goals.
Lori: #Goals. So that was my first intro into Pilates and then I went somewhere else before I went to upstate, and eventually finished it at upstate. My first week at Upstate I decided to sign up for Pilates for PE because where I went to school was cold and in the mountains, and I did not want to sign up for snowboarding.
Victoria: Yeah, no thanks. I hate winter sports.
Lori It’s awful! So I signed up for Pilates and I was so lucky, the two teachers who taught that were both trained by Romana. We had mat class Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and it was an 8am class. So that just shows you how much I love it.
Victoria: Dedication! You go girl.
Lori: Dedication. Even if I had to wear snow goggles to class, I never missed it. It was great. So that was my first intro and I fell in love with it. I loved the way it made my body feel. And I’m not a dancer- so not a dancer- and I just loved it.
Victoria: Me neither. We’ve discussed this before, but I did do tap dancing for a number of years, which is kind of funny. But it obviously doesn’t prepare you at all for anything you do in Pilates. Maybe the rhythm- there is a kind of cadence to Pilates- but that’s about it! So, yeah, personally I had no flexibility through my mid-20s. I couldn’t’ even touch my toes. I didn’t even know that Pilates was for dancers, I had no clue. I just showed up like: “Oh, hi! I like this.” It’s giving me a stronger core and my upper body is getting stronger. So yeah.
You then certified at your University, right?
Lori: Yes, I did, which was an amazing experience. It was a hardcore almost year-long program. I loved it.
Victoria: While you were still in undergrad?
Lori: Part of it was while I was still in undergrad.
Victoria That’s a lot to manage.
Lori: I wound up graduating and coming back for the finishing parts, it was great.
Victoria: So what happened from there? After you graduated, where did life take you.
Lori: I lived in the same three square miles I’ve always lived in. Here we still are! And I love it.
Victoria: Well that means you probably have the most successful Pilates biz in town- cuz everybody knows you!
Lori: You’re kind- I wouldn’t go that far, but I’m very fortunate and I have been very fortunate for years. My first job, I worked at a contemporary studio, and I loved it. It was great, it was beautiful, I loved all of the other teachers I got to teach alongside of, and I learned a lot! I was never exposed to contemporary Pilates because I literally fell into the classical work. It was really cool. After about a year and a half-ish, I decided to open my own studio. And I’ve had my own studio since 2011.
Victoria: Amazing!!
Lori: So I’ve just been teaching at my own spot, and I absolutely love the work.
Victoria: Where are you right now?
Lori: Right now, at this current moment, I’m at my house.
Victoria: Okay, so yesterday when we spoke, you told me that you’ve decided to close your studio that’s been open since 2011, which I’m sure was a very hard and heartbreaking decision.
Lori: Very.
Victoria: But you are looking forward to opening and maintaining your Pilates practice at home, right? So is this painted, beautiful room- “the room”?
Lori: This will be one of the rooms. So- I have my Gratz reformer in here, my baby chair, my Wunda, chair, my Ped-o-Pull, and my ladder barrel. I have a bigger room where I’ll have all of my bigger reformers and towers and all of that stuff.
I feel very lucky. The decision to close was heartbreaking. Years of work went into this. I cried a lot of tears.
Victoria: Was that a Covid decision.
Lori: It was a Covid decision. It sucks, but I just personally didn’t’ feel like continuing to try to make the commercial liabilities work without income. I just couldn’t do it anymore.
Victoria: It’s a really, really challenging time, and I think the industry is so stressed. Whether it’s Covid related, it’s also just a super touchy and very highly fueled time. There’s a lot going on- there’s an election, there’s Covid, and it’s very polarizing. I think there’s a lot that’s come through this time in Covid. It’s definitely allowed students and instructors alike to either rediscover their practice, but also what their intention is and where they should move forward from here. It was very important to me, for example- in March or April I actually saw this video on some Instagram about growing your Instagram presence. I watched it, and basically these girls were saying: “If you’re not brining anything positive to the table, or something new to the table- what’s the point?” And I just sort of sat on that and thought to myself: “Okay, what can I do right now, in Covid”- especially in New York City- we were so confused, and it was a very tense time. That’s how Mat & Chat was born.
Lori: Which is so cool.
Victoria: Right. So I think now, being able to work from home and not have to worry about the overhead and the liability of the studio- it opens up possibilities for things. Those of use who are really engaged in the community have found a way to turn this time into something that’s really positive. There’s always a silver lining, and the other end of the rainbow, so I think that you and your painted walls will have an incredible opportunity in your new venture- so I wish you well.
Lori: Thank you.
Victoria: So kind of speaking to what I was just saying, it’s very weird times. There’s a lot of movements happening, whether it’s in Pilates or a non-Pilates world. So something that we sort of spoke about yesterday- there’s been a lot of talk about Pilates being discriminatory. There are so many different spheres that we could go into, but because we are two white women, we can’t speak to things that we don’t know. So, there has been a big movement though about Pilates bodies, “Pilates is for every body.” I don’t think I’ve ever- I hope I’ve never discriminated against a client or somebody based on body type, but as I said at the very beginning, a lot of Pilates humans come from a dance background. That’s not to say that dancers can’t have different body types, but traditionally- they don’t. So I wanted to have a discussion about what your experience has been in Pilates, with basically what some might say is not a body someone would consider…
Lori: Oh yeah, straight up. Basically, since the moment I arrived on this Earth, a lot of people have told me I’m fat. First of all, don’t care. Second of all, based on- and I hope that we can change the narrative here- based on what is portrayed in the media, and not necessarily what is portrayed by the Pilates community as to what a Pilates body is, I definitely do not have one of those. I don’t think that if you have one you should be ashamed of it, and if you don’t have one, you shouldn’t be ashamed of it. This is the only body I’m going to get- this is it! I have no other choice- this is mine.
Victoria: And you’re doing this Wunda for the mat multiple times a week! I mean, come on!
Lori: I can only speak to my experience, obviously. People have said crazy, weird, horrible things to me, but I learned from a really young age to have really thick skin. Shout-out to my parents, because they taught me that a lot of times when people are saying these horrible things, it’s not actually about you-
Victoria: No, it’s not. It’s a reflection on the person who said it. 1000%
Lori: Not to go into too many tangents here, but-
Victoria: Do it.
Lori: I do think- if you’re currently alive, and you have a body, you can do Pilates. I don’t care if you do Pilates with me, I don’t care if you do Pilates with V, I don’t care if you do Pilates with any body as long as you are having fun, not injuring yourself, and it’s allowing you to feel strong and empowered. Who cares? Have fun, do it. But then again, that’s just my perspective.
Victoria: No! I don’t think it should be just your personal opinion, right? Should that not be everyone’s?
Lori: I think it should be everyone’s opinion.
Victoria: Like you said, you were born with this body, and for what it’s worth, I was born with this one too. It’s not something that we really have so much control over, at least unless it’s really something that’s gone to an extreme end one way or the other.
Lori: Totally.
Victoria: I think half the battle with body type is just learning to accept it. Once you’ve accepted it, it is then so challenging when others challenge your acceptance. Like you’ve said, you have gotten messages in the past from people who were really rotten and have rude things to say. Body shaming is a really disgusting thing.
Lori: It’s horrible. It should never happen.
Victoria: It should never happen. I don’t think- like we said- I don’t think it’s really ever a reflection on the person, but really the insecurities of the person it’s coming from. One thing we did discuss yesterday though, is that though you have received that sort of criticism in the past, for the most par tit hasn’t really come from within the Pilates community.
Lori: For the most part. There have been some randoms here and there. The way I’ve always looked at it is, they’re unhappy, that’s cool, they are currently not taking Pilates from me so, just keep it moving!
Victoria: Right. And also, for what it’s worth, I don’t think that anybody’s body type has ever affected the way they teach.
Lori: No, absolutely not.
Victoria: As an instructor and as somebody who can portray and relay information to a different body, I’m 5’11” and I’ve never once looked at somebody who is 5’2” and said: “I can’t relate to you. I can’t teach you.” It doesn’t work like that. The system is still the same. I think it’s important that we keep open minds. Like I said, I don’t have a lot of experience in it, so it’s nice to be able to chat with somebody who might have a different perspective. It’s very important also as instructors that have a social media presence- no matter how large or small it might be, that we are always putting a positive example out for our followers, and encouraging positivity and body positivity as well.
Lori: I totally agree. At the end of the day, we’re all here to be kind and love each other and we are all here to learn different lessons. I just think that shaming of any kind and discrimination of any kind has no place period in this world, especially in Pilates, or any type of movement modality.
Victoria: Right. It doesn’t. You said also- and this kind of piggybacks on that- but your first work out of your certification was at a more contemporary studio. You felt like you learned a lot from those instructors. Did you feel kind of at odds with them ever? How did it feel to have a different system?
Lori: I never felt at odds about it. I will tell you I felt a little- I don’t want to say isolated, that’s not the right word- but because I didn’t have anyone who was teaching the way I was teaching, I didn’t have anyone who I could be like: “My client can’t get teaser on the Wunda chair- where would you take them to get that?” It was just a different program, and that’s cool. But I learned a lot and I actually took some of their classes, and they were fun and music was pumping. I was burning in all sorts of places that I never felt before before. I’m really glad I started there because it really helped me to just kind of broaden my eyes from the beginning. It’s not bad or good, it’s just how it is- but I had been in this pure, classical zone, and it was just really cool to see the different sides of it. A lot of studios- and again, it’s not good or bad- but it’s just how it is. So having that experience was kind of cool.
Vitoria: Yeah, definitely. And we all know- I mean, I’m the Pilates Snob, I’ve defended and fought over classical Pilates for a really long time, having come from a contemporary background. For me, I’ve come to a place, especially within the last couple of weeks, where I just kind of feel that it doesn’t do anybody any good any more to just drill it in. I’m just sort of like: “This is what I do- if you’re interested in it let’s work together. If not, go do your own thing.” I don’t feel like I really need to prove this system anymore because it just seems like a no-brainer to me. If that’s not how other people feel, okay- go live your life.
Lori: Yes. Find what works for your body. If it’s classical- awesome. If it’s contemporary- awesome. If it’s trapeze- cool! Do it!
Victoria: Right, and I would be remiss not to mention that there is definitely some acrobatic and trapeze inspiration in the classical system!
Lori: Amen.
Victoria: So after this first job at this contemporary studio, how did you transition back to more of a classical world? What was the trajectory from there?
Lori: So I was still teaching my classical work in this contemporary studio. So that never really changed, but when I opened my own studio, I just did my own thing. The reason I opened my own studio was because I could make so much more money opening my own studio than not.
Victoria *laughs* Yeah, we’ve all been there.
Lori That’s the trough, that’s’ what I did, and I’ve loved every second. I have the best people in the world who come and do Pilates with me, and I’ve loved every minute. I’m just so grateful.
Victoria: So were you the only person working at your studio? Or did you have employees?
Lori: For a long time. I’ve had several employees throughout the years, but currently.
Victoria: So it’s mostly been a one-woman show.
Lori: Yes.
Victoria: Got it. There’s something to be said about taking that leap and doing your own thing. Right now I’m sitting in the Montauk studio, which has been a journey and a half, because obviously we had a pandemic and that obviously delayed things! Everything was worth it in the end because I’m here and I have this beautiful space. It will only become more full of apparatus as time continues, and I’m hoping that next summer it will really take off. I’ve had great support from Alycea [Ungaro] obviously, it’s a Real Pilates, and it’s very exciting. Having your own studio teaches you a lot. You’re running a business. You’re figuring out how finances work and payment. I’m lucky because I could just kind of piggy-bag off the infrastructure that Real Pilates had already built, but it’s super challenging to figure those things out. I think anybody who takes the leap and opens their own business is so brave, especially right now with so many businesses going through the: “Okay you’re open! But we have to shut you down again. Okay, you’re open! But we’re shutting you down again.” So I give major props to all the studio owners out there right now who are still trying to figure out how to navigate this crazy, super unprecedented time. But you will definitely have an amazing run at your new space.
Lori: Yeah, I’m really excited. I feel very fortunate that I had this opportunity and this option- as opposed to jut having to be done. So I’m really lucky.
Victoria: Great. Okay, so also at some point you were able to take a program through Kathi Ross-Nash. So talk to us about that and her.
Lori: Yes- I love her. Kathi- if you are watching- I am obsessed with you.
Victoria: Sometimes she does tune in, and I’m like: “Kathi’s here!”
Lori: So I just felt really lucky that I was able to be a part of that. I met some of my best friends there, like Juliet [Clingan]- (to Juliet) Hi, if you’re still here, I love you.
Victoria: I didn’t know that!
Lori: Yeah, we met through Kathi. It was just an amazing experience. Kathi’s knowledge base is unbelievable and the things that I learned from her that I was able to take back to my own clients totally changed the way I teach Pilates and the way I see bodies. We can all say as teachers, whether you’re on the classical or contemporary side, to teach the body in front of you. The way that Kathi taught me, I was able to switch the way I view things to be able to see not only the body in front of me, but how I can use the method to help the body in front of me move in a deeper way. So that was really a huge takeaway from Kathi.
Victoria: Something that I’m learning with every Mat & Chat I host- it is crazy the amount of extra programs, continuing ed, Masters, bridging, that every single instructor I’ve had featured on a Mat & Chat have done. It makes me look bad! I’ve done my certification and that’s all I’ve done so far.
Lori: So!?
Victoria: No, I know. *laughs* But it’s amazing because it speaks to this collection of people. Pilates is not only their job, but it’s their passion. To want to keep learning, and figure out- how can I learn more about the body? Or, where can I go from here? How can I see the body differently? And not only that but how can I learn the work in a different way? Andrea [Maida] was last week’s guest, and she went back and did the Work with Jay. She mentioned that they had two programs at the time: “The Work” and “Teaching the Work”. She said that she and a bunch of her friends were like: “Well, we don’t need “The Work”, we just want to learn how to teach the work!” and the program said: “No, you need to go back and do “The Work” first to make sure you have it in your body. She said she went back and was like: “I did not know how much I did not know.” You know? And that happens often when you go back to these continuing ed programs.
I’ve heard a lot of people say recently that classical is limiting. You know, the “What do people even do at a classical Pilates conference? Talk about the elephant?” That’s literally the direct quote. But you know what? Yeah, we talk about the elephant. Because there are so many places you see the elephant. Sometimes I’ll have a person step off the reformer after elephant and have them come over and do a pull-up on the chair. I’ll say: “Use the same abdominal muscles to scoop the pedal up that you just did to pull the carriage in and under.” Every educational tool that we have- whether it’s a seminar or a new program- it teaches us so much more about the body. You never stop learning.
Lori: No, it’s so fun. I remember at one of Kathi’s continuing education weekends, I met Jeanette, she’s Chachi, I call her Chach- this is a perfect example and I’ll never forget this. I have super tight shoulders that I’m constantly battling against. I couldn’t do- I can’t remember what exercise I couldn’t do. But she took me off and she said, “Okay, we’re going to do small barrel arm weights.” We did that, we went back to the reformer and it was totally changed! It was so cool. So Chachi- thanks! Haven’t forgotten you.
Victoria: That’s amazing! And yeah, I think there are always these moments too. That’s the thing that I think still amazes me most about Pilates. I’ve been teaching for a little less than five years, because I did teach in a contemporary space before classical, and I cannot believe- after going back to the studio now after shutdowns, and Covid- I’ll go back and I’m like: “Oh my God!” The other day I had a client who was having such difficulty with reverse teaser or swan on the Wunda chair. She couldn’t turn her wrists around. And she was like: “Can I just turn my wrists around?” And I’m thinking: “I don’t know- can we?” And then I’m like “Oh my God, of course you’re having difficulty- we just did reverse push-through, and when we did underhand versus overhand, you couldn’t do underhand!” Tis is the same thing! It’s so cool. It’s so cool to see these connections- and I’m like: “How am I still forming connections five years later?”
Lori: It’s so cool.
Victoria: Anyways- you studied with Kathi, she inspired and amazed you, and she is still somebody who you carry with you in your teachings today.
Lori: Absolutely. I’m so lucky to have gotten to work with her.
Victoria: Yes! Well I told you yesterday on the phone, but I went to Israel two summers ago to do a workshop with Kathi at Mor Vestler’s studio in Tel Aviv and that was a really amazing experience. I know anybody who has had the chance to work with Kathi has come away from it with more knowledge. One day I’ll gain the confidence to ask if she wants to be a voice on a Mat & Chat.
So is there anything we said we would cover that we haven’t gotten to yet? Oh- yes!! I just opened up my computer and I want to talk quickly about Shipp’s Creek! Your Pilates practice is all in the family. Your husband, mom- let’s talk about all of who you’ve gotten involved in Pilates.
Lori: Yes. When I was going through training, my dad would come up on the weekends and get my training hours with me. He was the first one who really started doing it with me. And then my mom got involved. We were out together two times a week. Now she loves it and does it two times a week and it’s fun!
Victoria: Does she live nearby?
Lori: We’re all in the same 3 square mile bubble, Victoria *laughs*
Victoria: Oh right, right, right.
Lori: Except for my brother. But when he comes, we can do Pilates. My dad is in all of my online Pilates videos. So yeah, it’s all in the family. I’m going to start calling it Shipp’s Creek- that’s awesome.
Victoria: It’s just because I’ve been watching so much Schitt’s Creek.
Lori: I must confess- I cried in the last episode.
Victoria: People have my Netflix login, because I had roommates in the city and we all shared the same TV. I started Schitt’s Creek from the beginning, but then when I came out here to Montauk I just turned the TV on and picked up from where I thought I left off, but I didn’t know! I bumped ahead and didn’t realize until it was too late! So I saw the future, and I was like “Nooo!”
Lori: That stresses me out.
Victoria: So anyways, it’s kind of fun because I know where it’s going, and I’ve gone back and watched in order. And I’m seeing how people are meeting and I’m like: “Oooh! I know where this is going! I’m rooting for you!”
Lori: So good.
Victoria: But so yeah- your whole family is involved, and you told me that sometimes even your husband will sneak in a reformer session.
Lori: Yes. He says that he doesn’t. My husband is a healthcare worker, so we kind of have opposite schedules. He’ll sneak down here, and I’ll hear the springs. And he’ll be like: “Oh I don’t want to do Pilates.” But I’ll come down and be like: “Oh- but you did! Cuz the springs are different! They’re not what I left them at!”
Victoria: It’s true. Once you learn what Pilates can do for you, you’re like: “Oooh, maybe I’ll sneak down!” It’s like when you were younger and your mom tried to feed you broccoli, and you were like: “No!” But then one day you try broccoli and actually like it, but can’t admit it because you already took a stance. That’s kind of what’s happening.
Lori: That’s kind of what’s happening. I’m hoping that within the next two months it will become a love, but right now it’s undercover. But I’ll take it!
Lori’s Speed Round
City or beach
Sweet or savory?
Cat or dog?
Adventure or comfort?
Books or movies?
Nights in or nights out?
Summer or winter?
Tea or coffee?
Early bird or night owl? Midday!
Pizza or pasta?
Europe or Asia?
Spring or fall?
Breakfast or dinner? Hardcore lunch