This Mat & Chat was hosted on on Instagram Live on Sunday, November 22nd, 2020. The chat followed a 25 minute mat workout.
Victoria: As Anna said at the very beginning, if you tuned in late, she owns or runs- owns? Runs? Both? Nexa Pilates & Fitness, which is on the Upper West Side- so just straight across from where we are right here on the Upper East Side. Anna, talk to us about Nexa and when that opened and then we’ll go backwards from there.
Anna: So I had a client from about 16, 17 years ago when I was a wee little thing- just a lady that I always connected with. When I came back from my travels overseas, we reconnected. This has always been a passion for her, she’s not a teacher or anything, she just loves Pilates. I got back together with her and she was like: “We need to open a studio!” And I was like: “Let’s do it up!”
Victoria: Let’s do it.
Anna: Let’s do it! So yeah, we started three and a half or four years ago with planning, finding space, and now I have a completely different outlook on the business side of things, because I was purely a teacher prior to that. Now I’m like: “Wow, there’s apparel and taxes and overhead bills.”
Victoria: And pandemics!
Anna: Yeah and pandemics! And government regulations, and people trying to shut you down. But anyway, I wouldn’t trade it out for anything. I’ve definitely learned a lot and it’s nice to just explore being a pat of the fitness industry in a more prominent way, and to be able to have a space and voice where I can actually have some influence. I had some ideas that have grown since I started 17 years ago about what fitness is and what it should be for people. For example, Pilates being stereotypical “skinny girls”; it doesn’t need to be like that. It can be for men, for bigger people, for older people, for anybody. I want to grow my idea of fitness, and then hopefully the Upper West Side’s idea of fitness.
Victoria: Great! Yes. So speaking of your idea of fitness, for those of you who don’t know Anna, she has a very diverse background in fitness. Obviously you started with Pilates many years ago- when did you certify at Power?
Anna: In 2004.
Victoria: Okay, so in 2004 you certified at Power, and you probably had interest in things other than Pilates even since before that time, but I always knew you- Anna worked at Real Pilates for quite some time, and then left and started Nexa, so that’s how I know Anna- but when Anna was at Real Pilates, she was still very much into different forms of dancing, and kettle bells, and weight training. So talk to us about all of these other cross-training things that you’ve incorporated into your fitness routine, and how they compliment and inform your Pilates practice.
Anna: Whewf! That’s a loaded question. I think that all types of moving informs other types of moving, and I’ve noticed that since the very beginning of my movement life. I was a ballerina when I was very little- did that for fifteen years, and that led me into Pilates. Pilates led me into yoga, and then I got into West African dancing, and it all builds on each other, and you start to see the patterns that are the same inside of each other. The golden rules in yoga are very similar to those in Pilates- about anatomical alignment and how you strengthen from the center out. I feel like every time I get a new certification or start to study a new discipline, I’m like: “Oh, this reminds me of the last one that I did.” But they’ve formulated it in a different way. Maybe it’s calisthenic instead of weight training, whatever the goal is.
Victoria: Okay, so let’s break it down and go into yoga. I know you certified at Power, did Pilates for a while, and then you moved to West Africa. Talk to us about West Africa- because while you were there, you practiced both yoga and Pilates, and you kind of created some hybrid of the two.
Anna: Yeah, so that was like: “What are the resources that are available to me?” At the time, it was only a mat. That’s what we had. I took what we knew, which was my yoga certification and my Pilates certification, and I taught and taught and taught until one blended into the other and the classes could literally go back and forth between a Pilates exercise to a yoga exercise, depending on what it was. That’s probably when I got my best education about how similar they are and how I can group different exercises and be like: “Oh, this is a series of extension exercises that we have in yoga, but then we have the swan and the single and double leg kicks, which are also good for extension, so I can pile them together.”
Victoria: Right, and you just had me do a boat, right? We did boat as an inverted swan for the double leg stretch? And that’s from yoga.
Anna: That is actually- navasana boat pose looks very much like our traditional teaser, and I kind of have a feeling that that’s where Joe got it from, but the hollow-body hold that we were doing in the workout right now-the hollow-body hold, and the hollow-body rock- that actually comes from gymnastics, which I studied for a couple of years as well, but yeah, it also has the same underlying callisthenic themes to it in terms of their warming up and their training- not the flips and stuff. Their warm-up is similar to a lot of the things I’ve learned in yoga and Pilates. I think actually it was Daniel Lyon that gave me that hollow-body rock first. And I was like: “Yup, that makes sense.”
Victoria Yeah, and Joe practiced gymnastics as well- and boxing, and tai chi. I’m sure that most of Pilates, came from other things that he practiced- and he sort of combined what he thought was the most dynamic, or effective, and changed what he thought would be best for bodies. It is true- the more you do, the better. Doing Pilates every single day is amazing, but if you have the ability to cross-train and see how other exercises can affect your Pilates practice, I think it’s important to add that in.
Anna: Yes, 100%. And I also had someone tell me once- he was actually a dancer- but all of the moves that we could possibly do, have been done already. They’ve tried it, they’ve invented it, they’ve put it together in a little series. I think that Joe definitely got inspired by a lot of different things, and as everybody says- he was a genius in his own right, in terms of deciding to use the springs for resistance and figuring out ways to heal injuries sand whatnot. But it was inspiration from a bunch of different things that he had done and already seen in the past.
Victoria: Totally- and they say the same thing about fashion. There’s no new fashion, it’s just recycled all the time. It’s true- there are only so many different ways you can move your body. If you have that education of other methods, it only helps what you’re doing in the studio.
We just kind of brushed over the whole “I only had mats in West Africa”, so why were you in West Africa, what brought you there? You spent a number of years there. How did you decide to do that?
Anna: Well I was a West African dancer for many years. After I left the world of ballet, I wanted something completely different than that. Ballet could be though of as the art of control, and the way I think of all African styles is kind of the art of release. How can you connect with drums and music and just throw yourself into with drums and music in kind of an improvisation way, and also just kind of a flow with music. So I started studying, studying, studying and danced with an Afro-Cuban group, and Afro-Haitian group, Congolese, I did Guinean, and then I started studying Sabar, which is from Senagal, and I had a few clients of mine say: “This is the way to go. If you want to learn it at the roots, learn the real stuff…” It was such a big part of my life, and they were like: “You gotta go there.” So I was like: “Absolutely.” I saved some money, and that was that.
I flew over- I was meant to stay for a few months. I fell in love with the culture, the people, the dancing. Of course, there were so many ex-Patriots that were dying for Pilates, that I had a job immediately. I was like- there is no reason to leave.
Victoria: You mentioned this yesterday- I didn’t know this about Senegal, but why are there so many ex-Patriots in Senegal? I didn’t know, and I just think it’s interesting.
Anna: Well, they call Senegal the “Paris of West Africa.” It’s the hub. You have Togo, Benin, Ghana, Guinea, Mali, Burkina Faso- there are all of these other countries around that are big and influential, but Senegal is the most. I believe that it is because it’s the most Western pointing- it projects more to the west. So as far as commerce, hundreds of years ago, it was the easiest place to get to. So it became big and important, there was a lot of culture there. Then there was the French colonization, so they had money and influence from Europe and whatnot. So because of that, the U.N., the peace corps, the embassies- they’ve all built stations in Senegal, so with that came all of these people that knew about Pilates and loved Pilates and were like: “Okay, we need this girl to come teach us.”
Victoria: So that’s how you wound up teaching Pilates?
Anna: Yeah. I mean, you need a job, so.
Victoria: *laughs* And then you created your yoga/Pilates hybrid, and that was something that people were really attracted to?
Anna: Yeah, people were really into it, actually. I mean, there’s always your Purists, people who are like: “We’re only doing Pilates today.” And I was like: “Great, we’ll run through it again and again until we’re blue in the face.” And then people only wanted yoga, and then there were people who were like: “Let’s just vibe and do it all.”
Victoria: So it sounds like your time there totally prepared you for pandemic times, where we had to just go back to teaching to the mat.
Anna: Yeah, I mean definitely. And that was also the first thing that Joe created- that’s all there was for a long time until the reformer came along, you know? And then I started to incorporate other things, which you know, remind me of the Pilates method. Things I’ve learned from capoeira, things I’ve learned from animal flow, things I’ve learned from working at Equinox for a few years with personal trainers, things that I’ve learned from Alycea Ungaro- the physical therapy things that she puts into Pilates. I feel like all of these backgrounds can come together and give you a more comprehensive workout.
Victoria: Obviously, I’m the Pilates Snob. And we spoke about this yesterday, but obviously when I teach Pilates I try to keep it classical, but its impossible to not bring in elements of other things you’re educated in when it comes to your teaching, which is why every single instructor has such a different approach. I don’t come from a dance background, I don’t know dance. The other day I was a test-out body for one of the apprentice bodies here, and she said: “Get into relevé” or something, and I just started at her like: “What?” It took me a second- obviously I know what it is, but at the time I was like: “Huh?” So those from a dance background have a different way of teaching Pilates- she said relevé. Alycea, who is a physical therapist comes to Pilates and brings her PT background when and if it’s necessary. Daniel, who you mentioned earlier, taught you the hollow-body rock. Every single person, you included, we bring what we know to the method and I think that’s what makes the method so interesting and diverse. That’s why you’re never going to have the same workout twice, because every Pilates instructor has a different approach, which I think makes it so great.
So after you spent five years in Senegal, then you came back to the states. Was that just because you were like: “Been there, done that, time to come back home?” What was the reason you came back?
Anna: Well, it’s kind of a bittersweet story. I had a dance company- still kind of do- called the WaNgui Project. With all of the interaction I had with the Peace Corps, the Catholic Relief Services, the U.N. and all of these people that worked there, I realized there was a much greater purpose to traveling around West Africa and learning about culture and people, so I coupled my dance project…the idea was to have shows, and use the proceeds go towards girl’s relief services and women’s relief services. Girls that never learned to read or do basic math, or understand money or business interactions, could do those types of things.
There was also an organization that I was really interested in working with called Tostan and their main thing was the end of female genital cutting, so it was kind of an awareness project, and then there’s a more beautiful side of Africa out there, in terms of their culture and their dance. We could use our economic advantage to help them out. So that was the goal, and then a certain person came to be President and all of that went away, because a lot of restrictions came up as far as bringing people over just for visits, artists visas- all that stuff was out the door. Thankfully that’s done now, as of just a few weeks ago, so the WaNgui Project might come back to life. But yeah, the original project in coming back was to furnish that- to start to have a catalyst for that, some kind of financial support and whatnot.
Victoria: Great! So the plan is to get back to that when things are able to change.
Anna: Definitely.
Victoria: Awesome. Now when you first came back, you came back to Real Pilates- that’s definitely when I met you, at that time. And then you went on and started Nexa.
Anna: Yeah! I mean I don’t want to bypass that three years that I spent at Real Pilates. It was three years of growth for me. Alycea Ungaro is one of my favorite teachers, and she brought so much to the method, like you said, because of her PT background. My original teachers, Bob Liekens and Susan Moran were both also awesome, and they’re the ones that I always think of like: “Those are my teachers! Susan and Bob!”
Victoria: Is that where you met Juan?
Anna: Yeah! We’re bouncing around so much *laughs* But yeah, no- absolutely. I met Juan at Power in 2005, I think. I had been there for a couple of years when he moved to New York. Both of us were kind of Susan and Bob’s babies- we grew up teaching right next to them and getting yelled at on the floor when we did stuff, but it was so educational. I feel the same about my years at Real Pilates, because I had someone with a different background and different perspective of the method that I got to learn a whole lot from.
Victoria: Wait, so was it your first time at Real Pilates when you came back from Africa? You had never worked there before?
Anna: Yes- never, never. I got home, I had like two dollars in my pocket, and I called Juan, who is one of my best friends, and I said: “Juan, I need a job.” *laughs* And he said: “Alright, come work at Real Pilates!” And that was that. I think I had been off the plane for two days, and he sent me down there.
Victoria: You’re like: “I’m hungry!” Cool, I didn’t know that. I thought you had worked there, gone to Africa, and then come back to Real Pilates, so that’s interesting. I loved you at Real Pilates, and I always thought you were so strong! Oh my God, you’re so strong. And I think goes back to something you said earlier, about changing the perception of what a Pilates body is or isn’t- it’s not just a skinny girl workout. I’ve definitely gained so much strength through Pilates, and it really has changed my build completely. I am so proud of that now, I really feel like I can defend myself, and lift things. My fiancé and I moved recently, back from Montauk, and we had so much stuff- huge boxes of things- and he was like: “It’s so great! You’re kind of like a guy! You can lift these boxes.” *laughs* I’m like: “Thank you! It’s all from Pilates!”
Anna: *laughs* That’s great.
Victoria: But it’s true- it really makes you stronger, so I think it’s a really effective workout. Watching you in the studio, when I was at Real Pilates, I was just an apprentice. Maybe I had just completed the program when you came back, or I was still in the program but I remember- you were just so tough, and watching you, I was like: “Wow! This woman is just so badass.” I was scared to work out with you!
Anna: I was just going to say- especially with your experience of how you changed your body and how you feel so strong now, it’s one of the many stories that can change the narrative that Pilates is just for girls, or it’s for ballerinas. I’ve had clients who have come in before and been like: “Well this was created by a dancer, right? So you have to be really flexible to be able to do it.” How have people created such a misconception around what Pilates is? It was created by a boxer who was a big, beefy dude! And it was meant to be for men! So somewhere along the way, we lost that. Maybe it’s because so many dancers took over after Joe passed away- not that that’s a bad thing, but I think we really need to bring it back into the mainstream. So stories like yours, and being tough in Pilates can help that!
Victoria: It makes a huge different. It’s always going to be attractive to dancers, obviously, every time we have a new apprentice group it’s always 50/50. Half come from a very strict dance background, and the other half have no clue what a relevé is, or whatever that thing is where you spin your leg around at like a spoon?
Anna: Yeah, that’s rond de jambe.
Victoria: Oh, well I knew that word. But, regardless, I do think at the end of the day, the majority of the clients who come to the studio do not have a dance background, so I think being able to relate to people who do not have that background is sometimes really helpful. Sometimes when you come from a dance background, it’s so easy for you to rond de jambe, or to relevé. But then you have this body in front of you. I remember there was this instructor who worked at the studio- and I will not name names- but she worked at Real Pilates and I was working on my side leg kicks and I couldn’t figure out my grand rond de jambe-I just couldn’t figure out how to rotate my hip- it just made no sense to me. She had about a three minute patience span because she had this crazy, amazing dance background. She was like: “I don’t understand why you can’t get this.” And I was like: “I’ve never done this before!” It was fine- I figured it out- but now I know how to teach this to people who do not have that background, because I figured it out without that background. I can describe it in a way that’s more accessible. I do think that regardless of your background, obviously, being a dancer makes you a fabulous Pilates instructor and you also don’t need to be a dancer to be a fabulous Pilates instructor. I think that as long as we keep it approachable from all sides, that Pilates will always persist. We will always have Pilates.
Anna: I think it’s also important to remember that all of that rond de jambe, relevé, en arriére- that didn’t come from the original method. Joe didn’t have any of that stuff- he wasn’t a dancer at all. Romana let it in because she had this kind of nostalgia about her dance career that had come and gone because she took over the studio when she was in her 40s and kind of relived that. People will debate that with me, but there were definitely a lot of ballet terms and ballet moves that were put in once Romana was put in charge. But it wasn’t the original Pilates. I would never- as somebody that doesn’t come from a dance background- feel bad about not knowing what an attitude is, or a relevé. That’s not Pilates! It’s not.
Victoria: Yeah that’s true! And I do like hearing that differentiation because we are so used to hearing that terminology in the studio, but it’s not the method- it’s in addition to. It’s definitely helpful if you do have that background- it’s just a quick way to say it.
Anna: Yeah, and my teacher Bob Liekens, when I went through his LEAP program two years ago, he was really adamant about trying to extract all of the French out of the terminology and out of the Pilates method. He would say: “If it’s French, you know that Romana put it in there because it’s a ballet term, and that’s not what we’re teaching. Let’s just teach the method.
Victoria: Oh that’s really interesting! I like that. It’s an interesting way to define what did or didn’t come from Joe. I like that approach.
Anna’s Speed Round
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