This Mat & Chat was hosted on on Instagram Live on Saturday, October 10th. The chat followed a 25 minute mat workout.
Victoria: Andrea has so much of a background in Pilates. She has done multiple programs and studied under many people who have had different influences on her teaching. So I think we’ll start present and work backwards a little bit, because one of the first things I said when we started working out was: “Oh, I can tell you’re influenced by Jay already,” because Andrea is quiet when she teaches. She is watching-
Andrea: I’ve been trying!
Victoria: She’s like: “I’ve been trying for many years!” *laughs* After my Mat & Chat with Noor of Jade Pilates, she mentioned that about Jay and her program at Vintage- the Work- and I tried for that next week. I was like: “I’m going to hold it back and not say anything when I’m teaching my clients.” I could not. It’s really challenging for me to take a breath and just let them work through it. I feel like I always have to be speaking! So that is something that you learned, I’m assuming, from your program at Vintage. Talk to us about that “Masters” camp you kind of did, and what it was like working with Jay [Grimes] at Vintage.
Andrea: Well, I really enjoyed my time in the Work and also in teaching the Work. I had been studying with Jay for as long as I could prior to the creation of Vintage Pilates and that program. I sort of took lessons with him as regularly as I could for several years- 5ish years before the Work. He was very much under the radar when I met him at that point- 2004, 2005. I was working in a studio where the studio owner brought Jay to our studio periodically- he taught workshops, he taught lessons, so I was very fortunate. He was just a very different temperament and different demeanor do the ambience I was working in in the studio, and he was really gentle.
I remember standing after a lesson- I never felt like my back felt bad after, but I just remember standing there teaching, and thinking: “Wow, I feel great!” And then I was like: “What did he even say?” He didn’t say anything! You know? So I was like: “Hmm, that’s interesting- I’m going to think about that.” Then he started doing workshops with Siri Galliano and other people in a sort of conference-y sort of style event, so I would go to any of those sorts of things. So I knew when Vintage Pilates was being created that there was probably going to be a program that I wasn’t going to be able to stay away from. My husband was really funny. He was like “Another training program?” *laughs* And I was like “No, you don’t understand!” Then we sound like we’re in a cult.
Victoria: Yes- we are!
Andrea: It was really great because at the beginning of Vintage Pilates, they announced both programs. You could do “The Work”, and then they let you know of the second program, “Teaching the Work.” Myself as well as other people, we were all like: “The Work? We know about that- let’s talk about “Teaching the Work.”” And they were all like: “No, no, you have to start with-“
Victoria: “The Work?”
Andrea: Yeah, the premise being that you have to know and experience the work in your body before you can help others. Intellectually that made sense to me and I kind of had an idea of what I might learn in “The Work”- you know, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. But I have to say, it far exceeded my expectations.
Victoria: Yeah, I think that phrase is so applicable for so much these days: “I just didn’t know what I didn’t know.” I think it’s very relevant and take it for what it is. That spoke to me in a sense. So that was what year?
Andrea: That was 2012. I started and you could do the reformer, and then a few months later you could do the mat- they kind of had a rolling program. There wasn’t a set order or setup, like “You have to finish within a year” or anything at that time. I could make my mind up by the first reformer workshop, which was in July I believe- maybe it was 2011. But by the time October came around and it was the mat, I had decided. And it was the mat! So it was less scary.
Victoria: That is a good segue to what we’ve been doing the last 8 months or so. Yesterday when I spoke to you on the phone, you told me that you are not open for business. I don’t know if all of California is the same- but you obviously have a studio in your home, so you are just choosing to stick to virtual for the time being.
Andrea: Correct. I believe the official San Diego County by-line is that you can be open indoors but at 10% capacity, and I really only see like one or two people at a time. But I have hesitated more because is it my home.
Victoria: Yeah! Of course. I understand. So Lori, who is watching right now- Lori Shipp- she is the Mat & Chat guest next weekend- she had a question that is relevant to this time in our lives. She wanted to know that the most challenging part about transitioning to an online format has been for you.
Andrea: Ah, okay- so full disclosure: When I worked at Vintage Pilates from 2015 to 2017 or 18, part of their business was teaching online lessons to people around the world. So, I had to start doing them because of Vintage Pilates, and that sort of led to me meeting people at a distance. I started to teach people online! At first it was challenging because if the WiFi is not great, I’m supposed to be teaching movement- but the person isn’t moving!
Victoria: Yeah, or they’re blurry
Andrea: Yeah! But over time I really was amazed at what you could see- that you could really see a lot of things, albeit just at one angle. I sort of like the transition to online. I’m a big fan of human behavior and why people do what they do- and it was interesting to see which clients were like: “Well of course I’m going to continue to do Pilates online. Why is that even a question?” And then I found out that some people- like, the idea of seeing themselves on camera was something they would never entertain. I was like: Wow! We have a phone in our hand that films everything we do now! I was sort of just surprised by that.
Victoria: Someone just commented that: “You see everything.”
Andrea: Yes.
Victoria: No, you see everything. Like even when you’re working out online- you still see everything.
Andrea: *laughs* Yeah, it’s true. It’s so true. I also feel like it really separated the people who were willing to own their workout themselves and allow me to be more of a guide and make suggestions that they’re going to practice the next week before their lesson. I’ve also been amazed at the amount of progress you can make when you just have a mat, even if you don’t have any other studio apparatus.
Victoria: It’s insane. I think now it’s been so many months, and we’ve stuck to so much of the Zoom Pilates and virtual mat- it’s crazy. I don’t think anyone would have expected to see how strong you can become just working with your own body as resistance- and gravity.
Andrea: And time! Time and repetition of doing the same thing over and over again. Repetition in a good way.
Victoria: Yeah! It’s been really cool. The Pilates foundation is the mat! So, to have spent all of this time studying it and learning from it, is a really good reset for most instructors and most clients? Personally in my teaching, if I had 5 minutes left at the end, I’d be like: “Oh, okay! Let’s do roll-up through spine stretch forward and now we’re done.” Of course, we’re doing side leg kicks. But it’s like: Why do spine stretch forward without a spring when you have springs! It’s very interesting to see the differences, and it’s been a very good reminder. For me, it’s like: “Whoa. There’s a lot here that you can be using every day.”
Andrea: Yes, and it takes longer to see change and progress if you only have the mat, but- we have time!
Victoria: Yes, exactly. We don’t have anywhere else to go!
Andrea: I’ve also noticed in real life- at least for me- I’m sort of a people pleaser. So sometimes I’m so focused on some body part and not some whole moving organism. So seeing someone in a little Zoom box actually helps you to see the movement more effectively.
Victoria: 1000% I’m an instructor (as you know) in New York City. So a lot of my clients are in little boxes of apartments. People with homes are like: “Oh let me move my coffee table so I have room for the whole camera.” But people in New York City are like: “Welcome to my kitchen/living room/bedroom.” It’s been very funny. With the proper set-up, I am looking at the entire body from a distance. I find myself looking at them from head-to-toe and then back again. I’m seeing things in a way that I don’t focus as much on areas as the way I would in the studio. So it’s been a very cool approach.
Andrea: Yes, I agree.
Victoria: So, to back up- when we were doing the neck pull, I asked you: “Do you want me to hinge, or do you want me to round all the way through?” And I asked you that because in my Mat & Chat last weekend with Liz Ahearn, we just rolled the whole time. I actually think she cued it from the get-go, so I didn’t even think to hinge because she said to just roll. So I asked you today because I was certified at Real Pilates in NYC and Alycea was trained with Romana. That must come from Romana- and that’s also where you started your Pilates. Talk to us about the neck pull- although I guess jury’s out: the hinge comes from Romana and the round is just Joe. But as far as your beginning, and your intro to Pilates- take us through that.
Andrea: Well it’s funny that we’re talking about it in conjunction with the neck pull because the neck pull figures heavily in my introduction to Pilates. I took my first Pilates class- it was a mat class- because I was an actor, and that was the cheapest version of Pilates that I could take. I went to a mat class and I didn’t know what Pilates was and I learned that I couldn’t roll up and down in the roll-up. I started at a studio in Washington D.C. called Excel Pilates. Shout-out if anyone’s watching from Excel.
Victoria: Yes! Alexandra Adams!
Andrea: Yes! So- they were also trained by Romana in the 90s. In that mat class, or the next-level mat class, we learned the neck pull. I was also in their training program, and there was a hinging aspect of it, and then kind of staying elongated and lowering the back down from the bottom to the top. The Joe version kind of teaches the same elongated rolling-down, but starts more with a lift away from the center so that it does start to roll down in what we could call a round shape from the get-go. As you were doing really beautifully, the lifting element of that hinging part is present in that original Joe version, in my understanding.
Victoria: I like the Romana version. I like them both, but I like doing the Romana version as sort of a reminder- like you said- of the short box. I’d be curious to know why she changed it.
Andrea: My understanding is that as people were rolling down, it started to get “sinky” and she didn’t like that, so she created to emphasis the lifting, maybe.
Victoria: Yeah, interesting! If anybody out there watching knows, DM us! A little history lesson.
Okay, so you certified through Excel Pilates in D.C. Then, you did another certification, right?
Andrea: I did. So in 2004 I moved to San Diego and started working in a gym, which is just because they would hire me basically *laughs* and then I found one studio that had Gratz equipment that was actually in Solana Beach. I didn’t live in Solana Beach yet, but it was all Romana’s Pilates- this studio. Even at Excel, they would tell stories about Drago’s Gym and the original pieces of apparatus built by Joe, and stories of Romana, so I had already heard the stories. In this studio I worked at where everyone was Romana’s Pilates, I really felt the: “You are not like us” kind of vibe for a while. And I was like: “Well, we know the same exercises, I’m just once-removed from that.” But at their encouragement- and I was curious too- I went to the studio because I wanted to see what it was like.
Victoria: You went to Drago’s?
Andrea: Yeah, because I wanted to see it. I took a lesson, I asked if I could observe and at first they said no- then I took another lesson and asked if I could observe and they said: “Oh yeah, honey. Go ahead. *laughs*
Victoria: That reminds me of when you want to convert to Judaism, and you have to try three times. On the third time, the Rabbi is like: “Okay, you’re serious. Come on over.”
Andrea: Well you know, I very much thought that they were like: “Who are you?” But I proved myself. They would say: “Intermediate reformer” and I would say: “Yes, I will do that.” So when I was there at Drago’s, I had been teaching for a couple of years already. At the time, the only type of classical continuing education that existed was at the PMA and whatever they had in that sort of style. I had been to the PMA for a couple of years in a row, and I felt like there were so many different styles. People saying: “This is what Joseph Pilates meant,” or “No, this is what Joseph Pilates meant!” So, I sort of felt like I learned circus trick sort of exercise, I learned pre-Pilates type exercise, but I really wanted continuing education that would help me teach the knee stretches better, or teach the hundred better- things I had to do all day long. So I asked them when I was at Drago’s: “Can I assess to be in your program and you could tell me what I need to do to do that?” And they were like: “Okay!” So I kind of did a Romana’s Pilates certification as a continuing education on steroids.
Victoria: Kind of like a bridge.
Andrea: Yes. More time spent with the same exercises and not worrying about how to teach along with it, because I had sort of already taken care of that a little bit.
Victoria: Cool, that’s awesome! So were you commuting? Or did you live in New York?
Andrea: What I did is I went to Drago’s for the beginning- the assessment- and then I did my beginner and intermediate seminars in Los Angeles and in San Diego, and then I went back to New York to finish. I guess I took all of the seminars in Los Angeles, and then I tested out for like two weeks in New York.
Victoria: Cool, that’s awesome-and then you went back to California, where you were living, and took it with you.
Andrea: Yes.
Victoria: So you were teaching at that Romana’s Pilates- so were you finally accepted?
Andrea: Um, yes! I was teaching the same as them. But, it was an interesting personality dynamic at that studio anyways, so there were far more problems than just what I was teaching.
Victoria: Well it’s funny because classical Pilates gets the bad name of being elitist quite often, and I think it’s interesting too. I’m relatively new to this world- I’ve only been working in the classical sphere for 5 years, so to me that’s brand new. I’ve learned more in this Mat & Chat series over the last 4-5 months about the Pilates world than I had in the 4.5 years that preceded it. I never knew that classical Pilates was elitist until I started talking to people in the classical Pilates world. I just think it’s funny! As somebody who is basically just a provider for a consumer, I certainly am not discerning when it comes to my consumer- anybody who comes in to my studio is perfect, you know? You want to do Pilates? Come on in! But I think the elitist vibe is not for the consumer who is coming in to your world, it’s for the people who are already in it! So that’s the interesting thing. I think that there is this weird hierarchy maybe or some attitude amongst instructors that make people think that it’s elitist. But, I certainly don’t think that that will persist through time only because it’s getting bigger and bigger. And if you’re new like me, you didn’t even know about it. So why keep that attitude, or that gate-keeping?
Andrea: Right, right, right.
Victoria: I don’t know if that’s what it was tied to –people guarding their information.
Andrea: I was just thinking that actually. Now we’re in much more of a sharing, peer-to-peer learning sort of, versus an institution to an individual. And when I was the only person with a different kind of certification, I did experience that kind of: “Oh yeah, whatever you do…” but, I think that happens when you’re working for someone else. They’re a little bit more monitoring of your teaching, because it’s a little bit more supervised. They like to make sure that people are on the same page as much as possible.
Victoria: Yeah. It’s interesting. Unless you’re Joe, do you really know it all? So it’s hard to take the pedestal stance when we’re all just learning from someone else. It’s this long game of telephone and we’re all just taking from it what we can.
Andrea: You’re correct about that.
Victoria: So you worked at Vintage until 2017, and is that when you started your home studio? Or was that already co-functioning?
Andrea: Oh yes. I’ve been teaching in my home studio since 2010, and I had always worked 4 days a week, so I basically taught at Vintage one day a week- I’d go up to Los Angeles.
Victoria: Got it. So what made you decide to just go back to the in-home teaching?
Andrea: I was using up more time running my home business. I tried to do one time a month at Vintage to phase out, and that just seemed like once a week was more productive. Once a month felt like I was just not there as much.
Victoria: Right. It’s hard to see a client just once a month and see the same progress, maybe.
Andrea: Yeah, so I sort of just started working in my studio.
Victoria: And what is your studio like? Can you show us?
Andrea: Oh, yes! It’s a living room as well. *turns screen around and gives us a studio tour*
Victoria: Everybody, welcome to Andrea’s house!
Andrea: That’s the home tour!
Victoria: That’s the home tour portion of the Mat & Chat, thank you for joining. I love it! I like your colors too. With Gratz, you can choose a million different colors- you could do hot red or lime green, but at the end of the day, I’m such a neutral. Especially if you’re going to have it at home. I have a mauve chair but I was very hesitant to purchase a mauve chair. I saw the word “mauve” but actually, it’s pretty neutral as well. Everything else here is grey.
Andrea: Yeah, and I used to not have a white studio, my walls were yellow for ten years, so I had brown leather sofas and that’s what led to my apparatus being brown. But now I’m like: “I need more color!” One day I’ll reupholster.
Victoria: You can do a pop! That’s s popular thing now, all the big apparatus will be a natural, but then there will be a pop with a spine corrector or a barrel. Two-toned, exciting and fun. The best part is you can reupholster any time you want!
Speed Round
City or beach
Sweet or savory?
Cat or dog?
Adventure or comfort?
Books or movies?
Nights in or nights out?
Summer or winter?
Tea or coffee?
Early bird or night owl?
Pizza or pasta?
Europe or Asia?
Spring or fall?
Breakfast or dinner?