This Mat & Chat was hosted on Wednesday, August 5th, 2020 on Instagram Live. The chat followed a 25 minute mat workout.
Victoria: We will redo the workout- it’s great because we are using towels and books as props, which is so great for people stuck at home and not working out in a studio right now. You were open, but then you had to close, correct?
Nina: Yeah, we were open for three weeks and then they were like: “Oh just kidding, we have to shut down.”
Victoria: Right. And now it’s just back to virtual only
Nina: Yeah.
Victoria: I mean virtual is the way of the future, as we discussed yesterday. So even though it’s frustrating, it’s still something. Better than nothing. And I’m going to say that all of my clients who have been really good about their matwork have been exponentially stronger since this all occurred, so that’s really good too.
Nina: I agree, because when we did reopen for that very short time frame, the clients who came back who had been consistent with their mat work were much stronger.
Victoria: Okay, so Nina does not hail from Rancho Cucamonga, she hails from the Midwest. So why don’t you talk to us about how you originally got introduced to Pilates and where that journey began for you in Chicago.
Nina: Sure! It was totally by accident. My dad worked for a real estate company, and one of their tenants was the Pilates Studio of the Midwest. They needed someone to answer phones and book appointments in the evenings, and my dad was like: “Well, I have a 16-year-old kid who just got her driver’s license. If she can sit here and do her homework, she can answer phones and book appointments.” So that was my first job, just being a receptionist at the Pilates studio after school and during my summers. It was totally by accident. I never sought it out, I never- well, actually, for the first two summers that I was there, I had no interest in Pilates at all. I thought it was really weird and bizarre. But being there all the time, and especially in the summertime- it was a certification center that Romana trained everyone at- eventually some of the instructors and Rhonda Celenza, the manager there, was like: “Well since you’re always here, can you start being a practice body for some of the apprentices for people to practice on you?” And that was sort of my first introduction to Pilates, being everyone’s guinea pig when I was younger since I was always around. That sort of develop into me becoming more interested in it, gaining an understanding of it, and getting certified in it myself.
Victoria: Awesome! And the program was Romana’s Pilates, correct?
Nina: Yep.
Victoria: And when was that?
Nina: Oooh, ten years ago I think? I was in my late teens when I started y lessons and then it took me a long time to finally get there and get certified. But I think sitting in the studio for so long and always being there and observing everything and listening to everything and watching everyone else as they wet through their apprenticeship and certification and testing- I felt like since I was in that environment for so long that actually going through the certification wasn’t that bad. I knew exactly what to expect, what was expected of me, and how the program ran.
Victoria: You knew what you were getting yourself into.
Nina: Yeah. I think just being in that environment for that long- That’s why I always tell everyone- don’t rush into doing a program. Take your lessons, take your time, it will just be much easier on yourself that way.
Victoria: I think that’s a good piece of advice. A lot of our trainings have gone on pause because of Covid and for some people I think it’s very frustrating if they were in the middle. But at the same time, it’s not awful, you know? It buys you a little bit of extra time- if you were behind, now you can catch up. I know it’s all virtual, but now you have this extra time to hone-in on your skills and I think at the end of the day- like I said before- I think these are going to be fabulous mat instructors- like, the best ever, after all this. I think as an apprentice, mat work is probably not your primary focus. There’s so much to focus on when you’re learning the reformer, or the high chair- you know, there are springs, and footbars, and straps and handles. I think matwork is something you memorize and place in the back of your head, like: “Oh, if I ever need this…” but now I think they’ll be the most fabulous mat teachers ever.
Nina: Yup.
Victoria: So you met Romana, right? What was that like? Or what was she like?
Nina: Well at the time that she was doing all of the training and stuff, I wasn’t really taking Pilates, but she was just a wonderful energy to be around. I always remembered that she liked to do everything in the morning, so I always had to be there super early to open up everything for her, and I am not a morning person- so that was like the worst thing ever. She just had this great energy and this great presence, and she just made everything feel so natural and simple. She always had this wonderful way of simplifying Pilates. I remember her saying: “I don’t do anything but ask you to move, dear. Just move.” She made it really simple and just beautiful. One thing I remember her always saying is: “You have to learn something new each day.” And that’s something that I always ask my clients after each one of their lessons: “What did you learn today?” Because that was important to her. I remember her saying that a lot: “What did you learn today?” You’re supposed to learn something every day and every single time you take one of your lessons.
Victoria: Right, right. Celia Jones sent me a video the other day, and I watched a portion of it- it was an interview, I actually don’t remember his name right now-
Nina: Michael Levy
Victoria: Yes! With Alisa Wyatt from Pilatesology? Yes! So basically in the interview, he was crediting Romana as really having brought Pilates, not to the mainstream necessarily, but for broadening the audience. She traveled all over the country, and she had this teacher training. I had the Cotrones on earlier this summer, and they were with Mari Winsor, but it wasn’t until Romana came out to Mari’s studio and put them through an actual 600 hour teacher training that they learned the structure and the form in a by-the-book standard. I do think that’s why so many instructors now come from this Romana lineage. It really was one of the first regimented programs that people sought for their Pilates instruction.
Nina: Yeah!
Victoria: So how do you feel about his statement- do you agree?
Nina: Yeah- she worked her butt off. She traveled a lot- she was all over the place. I remember a lot, working on the office side of things, always trying to coordinate her schedule and get things going and lined up and everything. It was a lot of work, but she worked hard- she was like just this endless ball of energy. She could keep going and going and going- it was amazing.
Victoria: Yeah, I wish that I could have had the opportunity to meet her, but at least I’m carrying on her legacy in some sense!
So how long have you now lived in California, and what brought you to California from the Midwest?
Nina: Seven years. So I originally moved out here because my boyfriend and I were doing the long-distance thing for three years.
Victoria: That’s a long time!
Nina: Yeah, and it got to the point where eventually someone had to move! He’s already lived in Chicago- he’s done the brutal winters and didn’t want to deal with that again. I had never really lived outside of Chicago, so I was like: “Okay, I’ll move and experience living somewhere different.” So that’s how I wound up in California!
Victoria: Cool! And do you like it?
Nina: Yes and no, I do miss seasons. It never really feels like Christmas, it never really feels like fall. It just feels really weird not having it. But then again, it is nice to never have to put on 16 layers of clothes and dig your car out to go grocery shopping, so it has its perks. *laughs*
Victoria: I’ll say! There’s a whole list of pros and cons for the west coast and for California specifically, but I think the having summer-type weather year-round would probably be a pro for most people. I remember when I did my semester there, I complained about the nice weather and people were like: “You’re crazy!” And I was like: “I just want it to rain!” I just wanted a rainy day.
Nina: That’s what I always say. I miss seasons and I miss weather.
Victoria: I know- especially in LA- because as New Yorkers, we are so good at using weather as an excuse for something. Like: “Oh, it’s raining today- I don’t think I’ll do anything.” Literally. I might not even roll out of bed. But you don’t have that excuse in California.
Okay, so in California you opened up your own studio, which is where we are right now. It’s not a Zoom background, as much as it looks like it might be. Talk to us about your studio!
Nina: So when I first moved here, a lot of our classical studios are out in the LA area and Pasadena area, nothing really close to here. First of all, for my own selfish reasons, I really missed the classical environment, so I was like: “I need to get a studio going around here.” Then again, it was kind of a no-brainer, I really wanted to bring it to the people in this area here who didn’t have a chance to experience the classical version of Pilates. So it just kind of happened, because in the Pilates industry out here where I lived, there was really none of that. So I was like, I really just need to put this together.
Victoria: So is there a lot of other Pilates there? Like more contemporary?
Nina: Um, there are a few studios around here. Not a lot-it’s not super saturated. So it’s kind of nice because we’re not overly saturated with Pilates. But again, there wasn’t anything classical, and with me being trained that way, I don’t really thrive as a teacher in any kind of environment other than what I’m trained to do and I know best.
Vitoria: So did you have any clients that came to you or have come to you that have a different Pilates background, who you then transitioned into classical?
Nina: Yes- some of them I actually taught at a contemporary studio when I first moved here before I opened op my studio- and I actually taught from home for a few years before I opened up the studio. Some of them kind of followed along and moved on with me and they enjoyed the difference in Pilates. Actually, one of my clients who is on here- Oh yeah! There she is- @PilatesHotties- she was one of my clients at the contemporary studio, then she started coming to my house. Now she lives in Boston and she got certified classically and works for Equinox in Boston.
Victoria: Oh, cool!
Nina: So, yeah.
Victoria: So actually, speaking of @PilatesHotties- I don’t know her real name- she submitted some questions for you. So since you brought her up, it’s a great transition to talk about her questions. She submitted two- her first one is: “Is there any piece of apparatus that you don’t have in the studio that you wish that you did have?”
Nina: The only piece of apparatus- well there are two that I don’t have- the guillotine, and the Swedish bars. I think we’re actually thinking of throwing them up there on that wall in the corner, or something. That’s the one that I really, really wish I had. The back of the ladder barrel kind of acts as your little mini-Swedish bars, but it’s really not the same. So that’s something that I don’t have that I wish I had.
Victoria: Cool. We got the guillotine at Real Pilates Tribeca like a year, a year and a half ago. We had one at our old studio location, but I had never really used it because I hadn’t been trained on it. It wasn’t a part of our teacher training. We did a whole weekend-long workshop and learned what to do, how to work out on the guillotine. It was so cool. I think one of the coolest things about it is that the bar is uneven and is spring-loaded in different ways. It shows all of your imbalances in such an obvious way. So that was a really cool thing to learn. I hope I remember it! I haven’t taught on it in so long in this point. I’m going to have to go back to the studio and take another workshop, which is funny.
Okay, so she asked you a second question as well- and I don’t know what you have in your studio- but she asked you whether you prefer Gratz apparatus or Pilates Designs and why.
Nina: Uh, both. I mean, both. To me, they’re equally great brands. I usually just gravitate more towards Gratz because that’s what I was raised on, and I have a great relationship with them and a great connection with them, so I always gravitate towards using them. And also, they’ve just been great to work with and responsive and have made tweaks and adjustments to certain apparatus as I’ve needed it, so I appreciate them and I love their work and maintenance. The equipment that I have from them- all of the reformers I have are from them- I’ve never had to repair, fix, do anything to them. All of the reformers are great. They are great, solid pieces of equipment.
Victoria: I think people who follow me and who have seen these Mat & Chats think I’m only Gratz- that Gratz is the only way. That’s definitely not how I feel. People message me all the time asking if there are any other brands I would recommend, and I say: “Yes, 1000%!” Even though Gratz got in the game, or is the game- Basil makes great apparatus- he was with Gratz and then spun off and did his own thing. I think Pilates Designs are great. There are a lot of people making classical apparatus- I don’t necessarily think that one is better than the other.
Nina: Sometimes, you know, it’s funding, sometimes it’s timeline. I got my two towers from Pilates Designs when I moved into the studio because with getting my permits from the city, all of a sudden things started moving so quickly and they were able to get my equipment expedited and they were able to move it much quicker. Sometimes it depends on location, finances, convenience- so, you can’t go wrong with it, as long as it’s a good reputable source.
Victoria: No, totally- agreed. I have not had the opportunity to try the Contrology reformer by Balanced Body, but I know that that’s their attempt at taking at back to the more classical build, as opposed to the wider, taller Balanced Body reformers that they traditionally make. It’s cool. There’s a trend back to archival, and I Like that- I think it’s important. Really important.
Yesterday we talked about clients and managing client expectations and what it’s like when you’re a small business owner with your own studio, and what it can be like tow work with clients who potentially want to be the boss of their session.
Nina: Yeah, it’s tough. Sometimes I let them. One of my clients who does that, we kind of compromise. Some days he gets to be the boss of the session and tell me what he’s looking for a needs, and other days it’s my turn. You called the shots last time, so now I’m calling the shots. You have to compromise. You have to give them what they want, too. If you’re not meeting their expectation- sometimes they don’t know enough about Pilates to know what they should be connecting to or expecting. I always tell them- the moving and the exercise is the easy part. It’s what I’m asking your brain to do- that’s the challenging part. That’s the real work. So it happens a lot where people are like: “I don’t feel anything in this exercise.” Well don’t keep harping on it and repeating it. You have to present it to them a different way, or you have to lave it alone for that time, and then wait for the connection to build up, and then revisit the exercise. Otherwise, you’re just going to lose them as a client.
Victoria: I think it’s funny that you say that, because that phrase: “I’m not feeling anything,” substituted for combined with: “Where am I supposed to feel this?” or: “This feels really easy”- those are the most frustrating phrases. As a Pilates instructor, your most immediate clapback wants to be: “That’s because you’re not doing it right.” But you can’t say that to a client!
Nina: I’m always saying: “That’s okay!” A perfect example, I’m sure you’ve experienced it- has there ever been an exercise that you’ve done that took you years to connect to, where all of a sudden you’re like: “Oh, that’s how that’s supposed to feel?!” I had a client who did that for leg circles. She would say: “I don’t like these, they’re so annoying, why do I have to do these every time?” And I said: “Because one day, I promise you, they will make sense.” It took about five years, and then all of a sudden one day she’s on the mat and she’s doing her circle, and she sits up and gasps: “So that’s how that’s supposed to feel like!” Right? But it took like four years before it made sense. One of my clients has literally been doing Pilates for ten years, and she just found that lower C-curve on her open-leg rocker last Saturday, and her open leg rocker looked stunning! She’s still excited about it. So I always tell them: “Just be patient- this is a journey, not a destination. You’re not going to be advanced and do things right away.” Give them tidbits of something- don’t overdo it if they’re not cognitively connecting to it. It will all fall into place on its own over time.
Victoria: Totally- that’s great advice. I feel similarly. I have clients who you can explain something to them every which way. You can give them visual cues, tactile cues, you can do every single thing and for whatever reason, they don’t find it in themselves. I’ve had a few clients where I see a video, or I’ll send them videos of me, and I’ll send it to them and say: “This is what we were trying to work on. Watch someone do it.” I think sometimes just seeing how someone moves puts it into his or her body in a different form. I did have a client learning open leg rocker, and she was trying so hard, but just wasn’t correcting in the right way. I guess I had a video of me doing it and she watched it and said: “I saw a video of what you were doing!” And she watched it, and I was like: “Yes! That’s it! You got it” and it’s so amazing.
Nina: Yes! And another thing I sometimes have clients do during their sessions is videotape themselves. You know, set up a camera or their phone somewhere. And they’re like: “Oh my God, I don’t want to look at it! I look so gross” And I say: “I don’t care what you look like. I need you to look at your body and look at your form, and do what I’m saying. Use your body as a tool!” You know? I’m sure you have it with clients too, they get stuck and they’re not really progressing. So I’m like: “You need to go home, and you need to watch this so that you start to understand.” It happens to me too! Your instructor will say: “Lengthen your spine!” And then you look in the mirror and you’re like: “What the crap is that?” So. If you want to progress and achieve more, it’s all dependent on the work that you put in. I can guide you through it, but I can’t do it for you. So when I have clients who are complaining about not progressing, I’m like: “Well, that’s all on you, buddy- that’s not on me.” And then they’re like: “Okay…” So if you can check in a little bit more, I can make you progress.
Another thing that’s challenging about clients- and I have one like this- she’ll come in four times a week. Physically, her body is changing really slowly- she comes in one day and she says: “Alright, I’m ready to do more! I’m ready to do more advanced things.” And I’m like: “Well, crap, you can’t! Your body is not physically there for it- it’s not happening.” So then as a teacher, you have to get physically creative and just give them what they know in different ways so they think they’re doing something different until physically they can catch up to doing more.
Victoria: Right. I think that’s so important- it’s important to keep clients in their lane. Carmen Lanteigne described a situation with clients where she felt that she basically got bullied into advancing them. You know, they’re saying: “I want to do more! I’m ready for this!” So she kind of let them, but then she realized when they started doing the exercise- and I think she gave them some part of rowing- she looked and was like: “Oh my God, they are so not ready to be here.” But that happens a lot. And I think in our case, it’s important that we keep our clients at the pace they’re supposed to be at. They think supposed to advances sometimes when they really shouldn’t. If there’s a way to advance them by breaking down a more advanced exercise and teaching them those building blocks, then great. But it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re ready.
Nina: Exactly. And I have this great list that Cynthia Lochard put together for us a few years back. Basically, as a teacher, as you’re watching you client struggle with an exercise, your brain right away should be going: “Okay, we need to work on X, Y, and Z in order to get there.” So it’s this great list that she made for us, and it says- if you’re struggling on the reformer, here are other places you can work on this in the studio. And two- going back to the clients, you know, something that my teacher Rhonda Celenza said one time that really resonates with advancing clients, is that there is nothing new that you learn in advanced, concept-wise. Everything that you learn in Pilates, you learn it all in basic and intermediate. There’s nothing new you learn in advanced, you just-
Victoria: Put it together?
Nina: Yes, but it together in more complicated and advanced scenarios. So if you’re struggling with the concept in basic or intermediate it’s going to get even worse if you advance them too soon. That’s what she always says before you think about advancing your clients: “What concepts do they need to keep working on?” And those are the areas that you don’t give them advanced work yet.
Victoria: Totally. And I’ll be teaching to the mat, and if I’m going to teach boomerang that day, I’ll make sure that we’ve done a roll-over, I’ll make sure that we’ve done some rowing, and I’ll make sure that we’ve done a teaser. Then, by the time we get to boomerang, I’m like: “You’ve done every single part of this already, let’s just put this together.” By the end of the workout you should be ready to put these together and do this exercise. Boomerang is an advanced exercise on the mat, so now that the body is prepared- let’s go there. It’s so interesting. That’s why I love how systematic Pilates is- you can see all of these building blocks for these advanced exercises. You can go: “Oh okay, this is just this, plus that!” You know? It’s so special, and that’s the genius of Pilates.
Nina’s Speed Round
City or beach
Sweet or savory?
Cat or dog? Both
Adventure or comfort?
Books or movies?
Nights in or nights out?
Summer or winter?
Tea or coffee?
Early bird or night owl?
Pizza or pasta?
Europe or Asia?
Spring or fall?
Breakfast or dinner?