This Mat & Chat was hosted on Saturday, May 30th, 2020 on Instagram Live. The chat followed a 25 minute mat workout.
Victoria: We are going to hop right into the interview portion- my favorite part. I of course love working out, but I love learning more about people who I have worked with before! Steph and I have definitely taken classes and semis with Juan at Real Pilates-
Stephanie: Side by side!
Victoria: Exactly! So she’s not an unfamiliar face to me, but for those of you who are unfamiliar with Steph, we’re going to get to know her a little bit better! Let’s go ahead and get started with your Pilates background and your history. You mentioned at the very beginning that you are Power Pilates trained and you work for them still. You are a Lead Teacher Trainer. So why don’t you talk to us about how you came to Power Pilates in the first place and we’ll go from there!
Stephanie: Sure. I was a dancer in college. My BFA is in dance performance. One of my dance professors, Kim Carpenti, she was a Pilates instructor. After I was in a car accident, to help me kind of rebuild after that, she said: “Why don’t you come and take some privates?” And she has knowledge from everywhere but was not a classical instructor. The principles were still there, the essence was still there. It’s different than how I understand it now today, but it’s also still how I remember it, even though it was almost 20 years ago.
When I was a sophomore in college, she started training me. I really loved the exercises, I loved the apparatus, I loved it- and I knew it was something I wanted to continue doing. When I graduated undergrad in 2005, early the next year in 2006 I was living in Cleveland and Power Pilates held a beginner mat training very close by and I said: “Should I do this?” And my teacher was like: “Yeah, absolutely!” So he came. His name is Ronan, and he’s out of Israel. He came and did the core mat 1 training with me and it was so systematic and there was such a nice formula about it, and the order of the exercises. I was like: “Oh, this is different than how I understood it, but this is awesome.” So I started teaching mat work then, but the next year- 2007- I moved to New York City to pursue it fully. I pursued some other things as well, but one of the things that I came here for was to take advantage of the full comprehensive certification that they were offering in New York to be able to work with Bob Liekens and Susan Moran, and do their whole comprehensive program. So I started that then.
Victoria: In 2007?
Stephanie: Yup, and by 2009 I started working there, between our midtown studio and our 23rd street studio, working alongside Bob and Susan. Carrie Clarke Campbell is another mentor of mine, Juan Estrada of course, Anna Clarke- all of their voices are in my head. I still work for them now! I became a teacher trainer for them in 2012 and I’ve been lucky enough to travel the world and make teachers all over this amazing planet.
Victoria: So I want to talk about that, but I also want to talk about Bob. Obviously I’m sure most people who are watching probably know that he is no longer with us. He unfortunately passed away a year ago?
Stephanie: Yes, a little over a year ago- the October before last.
Victoria: So why don’t you talk about Bob, and the imprint he left on you, and the effects he’s had on your everyday practice or teaching.
Stephanie: Yeah. I was always a little bit intimidated by Bob at first, and then I realized that he was just such a warm and caring person. What he really wanted was for you to be able to take this information and have him as this internalized voice but also be true not just to the method, but to yourself. He wanted you to shine through. What I loved about working next to him, with him on one side and Susan on the other- I always say that Bob taught me the exercises. He taught me these exercises, this is how they happen, this is the apparatus, this is how it works and the physics of it all- the order. And then Susan taught me how to be a teacher, how to deliver it to people and give them the message and the essence of Pilates with my words. The two of them balanced that out. When we lost him it was such a huge loss, because not only did he really want the teachers to be the best version of themselves in their teaching, but he just had so much knowledge of the exercises and teaching those exercises.
Victoria: That sorts of sounds to me like- I mean, it’s only hearsay- but sort of the relationship between Joe and Clara. Clara was the more approachable, patient one, and Joe was sort of more like this is what you do and this is how you do it. So it kind of sounds like Bob and Susan were a modern-day Joe and Clara, in a sense.
Stephanie: Totally. They totally balanced each other out. I would be on the floor teaching, and Bob would be like: “Nope, that’s not it. Not like that.” And Susan would be like: “It’s okay girl, you got it!” And I’d be like: “Okay!!”
Victoria: You kind of need that. Early on in your teaching career when someone corrects you on the floor- especially in front of a client- you’re like: “Oh my God!” To have someone be like: “It’s fine, just keep going” kind of helps you to be like: “Okay, let’s keep this together, let’s keep this together.”
Stephanie: Yeah, you need that “sink or swim” moment.
Victoria: Totally. So where have you gotten to travel through the Power Pilates Teacher Training program?
Stephanie: I have done certifications in Japan, Korea, Sweden, and hopefully once we get back to actually traveling, I would love to be able to do one in South America. That would be amazing. That would be so great.
Victoria: That would be so cool. It’s a lengthy process to become a lead teacher trainer. So even though I would love to travel the world and teach people Pilates, I am nowhere near that qualification. But that’s definitely a future goal of mine. Like okay, become a Teacher Trainer, and then you can take it with you wherever and teach people the system and I think that’s such a cool and powerful thing. I’ve always said this as a differentiator between classical Pilates and other forms of Pilates, but regardless of what language you speak, it’s the same wherever you go. The order doesn’t change. Every time I’m on vacation and I see a studio, I’m always tempted, even if I don’t speak the language. “Ooh do I sign up? Do I just go? Do I contact them?” At the end of the day, if they’re trained in the same lineage, with the same elders and mentors, they’re going to be teaching you exactly what you already know. It’s pretty cool that you can translate that to so many different countries and cities and see how that takes shape globally.
Stephanie: Definitely. It’s really cool when you’re teaching where you don’t speak the same language because the names of the exercises are spoken in English, but the setup, the body parts and all of the other stuff, I have a translator for. I could literally be saying anything. For one leg circle where we say: “Cross, around and up!” I could literally be saying anything, but I have to make sure that I’m saying it with that classical flow and rhythm in mind because they know what it is! It doesn’t even matter what I’m saying it’s just how I say it. It’s such an interesting thing. I’ll say: “One leg circle” so they start setting themselves up, but beyond that, they have no idea. So I have to make it very clear in my voice what exercise we’re doing.
Victoria: That’s pretty interesting. I had a client years ago when I was in the teacher-training program at Real Pilates, and you know- we need practice bodies, you need to be practice teaching. I don’t know if you experienced this when you were in teacher training, but for me it was so hard to find people that would dedicate and commit to a specific time. Someone would say: “Yeah, I’ll come in Tuesday at 2” and then an hour before: “Sorry, something came up!” And I’d be like grr! So this one woman understood how important it was for me to maintain those hours, so she texted me and said: “I’m really sorry I can’t come today, but I’m sending my friend Erika instead.” So I said: “Okay, great! Thank you so much for finding a replacement.” And she then goes: “The only thing is she doesn’t speak English!” And I’m like: “What?”
So she shows up and she was from Brazil- she was wonderful. And her daughter was there, she was about 7 or 8 years old. So I actually learned all of these Portuguese body parts and phrases. I could teach Pilates in Portuguese but I couldn’t have a conversation, so it’s almost a similar concept here- you can teach them Pilates, but you can’t actually speak their language.
Stephanie: That’s very cool. We figure it out.
Victoria: Totally, you kind of just have to figure it out. I know that after your undergrad, you also pursued a Masters degree in Kinesiology, correct?
Stephanie: I did.
Victoria: What was your inspiration, or what made you want to do that?
Stephanie: Well you know, I’ve always loved anatomy and kinesiology and physiology and after the car accident I was in in dance college, I wasn’t able to perform the way I was before. I was able to dive deeper into injury prevention, and choreography, and things that had a little bit more of that kind of a focus. I had always been very interested in that, and I was hoping to just deepen my knowledge, but I had also just become a teacher trainer in that year, 2012. This was the following year, and I just wanted a little bit more depth of knowledge so that when I teach the workshops that do have a portion of anatomy, that I could really speak to it with some knowledge and experience and just say that I did it. I loved it.
Victoria: I also went back to school for the same thing, but my program was just called Applied Exercise Physiology- there are so many different names. I wish that I had done a Kinesiology program only because it sounds so much fancier.
Stephanie: It’s so cool right? It sounds so cool.
Victoria: I think because kinesiology sounds like anesthesiology, so people are like: “Ooh! It must be medical! You’re so smart!” But no, I did Applied Exercise Physiology, so-
Stephanie: It still sounds pretty cool.
Victoria: It is cool. Similarly, I had finished my teacher training program and had been teaching for a year or two, and I was like: “There has to be more than can bring this full-circle for me” because I have so many clients coming in mentioning past injuries or issues, and they expect me to understand how that connects to the system, and how I’m supposed to be able to work around that, or work towards it. For me, I felt that if I really wanted to get more out of this as a career, that it made sense to go back to school and try to learn a little bit more about the body. That’s literally how and why we move. I totally understand your desire to go back because I had the same questions.
Stephanie: It’s so ironic too, because once I started teaching teachers, I realized that I’m teaching people who want to teach. I have to make sure that when I’m teaching you anatomy, this is not for you to teach your students. This is for you and your eye. Even with the apprentices that I teach, anatomy language is very seldom used. It’s more for the understanding. The depth of knowledge that you get with that education is incredible. And you eye as a teacher- the way you put hands on somebody- it changes everything.
Victoria: I actually find it really off-putting when I go to studios and the instructor is so anatomical in their teaching. I feel like it’s so unapproachable, and I feel like the average person who comes to Pilates is not a dancer. The average person who comes to Pilates does not have a background in anatomy. When you’re in a class and the instructor says: “This is for your psoas.” We don’t all know what a psoas is, and so sometimes even though the intention there, it can be a little bit isolation because as a student you’re like: “Uh huh, sure, whatever” but you really don’t know. Instead of saying something really complicated like trapezius or something, you can say: “Relax your shoulder” or “squeeze your shoulders.” Learning what makes you move- that knowledge is so important. But then it’s trying to figure out how to translate that to your clients in a way that they can actually understand and use it.
Stephanie: Exactly. When we’re not approachable as instructors and you’re saying all of these things and you know that most people don’t really know what an illiopsoas is, you know that most people don’t know that. So my question would be: Who is that for? Is that for your student? Or is that for you?
Victoria: On the flip side, I also have students who come in to me after an injury or from PT and they just list off like three different body parts or muscle groups and I’m like “You have no clue!” but meanwhile they’re like: “I have this, I have a shortening in my blah blah blah.” And I’m like- okay. Actually one of the best tips Alycea [Ungaro] ever gave us- and you know, I’ve been in many studios where they do this, and I don’t think it’s incorrect by any means- but Alycea always says: “Warning!” If you ask: “How’s everybody feeling today?” that’s a little bit different than asking: “Do you have any issues going on in your body that I need to know about?” I never ask that.
First of all, if you have an issue you’re going to tell me beforehand. You’re not going to suddenly, in that moment, be like: “Oh my God, I forgot that my foot is broken.” No, you’re going to know in advance. Alycea says if you ever ask that, you open the door to this total truckload of old issues and injuries.
Stephanie: A can of worms.
Victoria: A can of worms. And it is so true. You’ll ask and someone will say: “Oh, I don’t know if it’s relevant, but when I was 12, I sprained my ankle.” That is not relevant, actually. Unless you’re still experiencing issues.
Stephanie: “No, it’s not, but thank you. Pump your arms for the hundred.”
Victoria: Exactly. I love all of these different experiences that I’ve brought to the studio and how they’ve shaped me as an instructor. I know that your learning didn’t stop after your Masters in Kinesiology. Then you went back to school, so talk to us about your second Masters and what you pursued there.
Stephanie: Yeah, I just finished a second Masters on Thursday in Mental Health Counseling.
Victoria: Yay! Congratulations.
Stephanie: Thank you so much. I’m also a psychotherapist, so I guess I can actually say that now- that’s pretty cool. I haven’t started the licensing process yet, which should be starting here very soon. When I decided to go back to school for that, I was working with people and I noticed a trend- especially in women and how badly we can frame the mindset around our bodies, and how we see our bodies. This is especially in reference to language and how we speak about our bodies and how we speak about other people’s bodies. I realized that I could only get so far, as far as awareness is concerned, with what I wanted to get out of being a Pilates instructor and a person. I could only get so far with that if I didn’t start to learn more about why it is we do the things we do.
I knew that they could only go so deep into their practice or deep into their life if they had changed their awareness and brought themselves and brought themselves to the session and were able to have some self-awareness with themselves in the session. As somebody who admittedly has been in therapy for a very long time, I thought: “I really want to do this.” It’s helped me so much to be able go: “Where am I? What is it that I bring to this? Where am I today?” and all of these things that require an enormous amount of presence that strength can only get you so far in. You can do the exercises perfectly, but I think the way Joe intended for us to do it is to really think about what we’re doing and to focus on what it is that we’re doing. So I also wanted to become a therapist because it’s important to think about your body yes, but think about yourself and your approach to that, and why it is you do the stuff you do!
Victoria: How long was this program at Hunter?
Stephanie: Two and a half years, and now it will take about two more years to get the licensure. You have to do 3,000 hours of supervised therapy. That will start really soon, and you know what? I’ll do it. I’m already seeing 11, 12 patients a week, so hopefully it will be great.
Victoria: That’s incredible! On top of teaching Pilates and being a Lead Teacher Trainer. How has your teaching changed over the last two and a half years since you’ve been pursuing this degree?
Stephanie: That’s a great question. I have gotten really good at knowing my audience. So if I walk into a group or a private, being able to read the dynamic and consider what my stuff is when I come in and approach your stuff. When I say “stuff” I mean your issues, your stuff, your preconceptions- the lens through which you see the world. My teaching has gotten better because I feel like I am able to more quickly see you. People think they’re kind of hiding their stuff, but I’m like: “I see you.”
Victoria: You’re a psychic now. *laughs*
Stephanie: I was just going to say that! Not in a psychic way, but in a: “You don’t have to do that here” way. I don’t need to prove something to you, and you don’t need to prove something to me. If I’m really defensive as a teacher- just defensive, defensive- I’m limiting that other person. Not only am I limiting myself, but I’m limiting that other person’s growth in that room, in that space so much by being in that space and being on the fence, being self-conscious, or being insecure about something. So if I show up, and I show up for that person authentically and consistently, they’re also going to show up consistently time and time again. I tell this to the apprentices all the time. Consider yourself as a Pilates instructor- as I consider myself as a therapist- you might be the only person that shows up for that client every week.
Victoria: Damn! That’s powerful.
Stephanie: Think about it. The only person in their life that shows up! We’re teaching online now, and think about it- how do you build your business? Well, you already had connections with a lot of these people. The ones that you connect with, and they find you, and they want to take class with you over and over again- if they didn’t have a connection to you, they would just put on a free video that they found on YouTube. But they don’t- they come find you. You are that person that shows up for them. So I think what helped me over the past two and a half years and what helped my teaching is that I show up for them. And it’s not just: “I’m here! I’m on time! I’m at work!” But I show up. I’m there, and I bring my authentic self to them. I give them my attention and my time.
Victoria: It’s funny that you say that, because I’ve always thought of myself, in a sense- and I’m not trying to compare myself to you at all- but I’ve always felt as a Pilates instructor that there’s some sort of therapy roll that you play. Not so much in a physical therapy sense but also in the communication and the friendship that you have for your client.
Stephanie: Totally!
Victoria: I was a bartender for many years on-and-off- during summers, after college- and a bartender is a therapist in a same way that a Pilates instructor is a therapist. I think that’s great! If you have the knowledge you have- obviously the introspection that you’ve gained and the way that you can now apply that to your clients- it shows, and I think that when you have that ability it connects you in a much deeper way. I also think it transitions into this next question. I don’t necessarily need to you to answer it from a psychology perspective, but I do think it relates. This came from Laura Lampert. She wanted to ask you: “As an amazing instructor with a growing following, how do you handle all of the Pilates “fluff” out there that exists on accounts with tens of thousands of followers?” I interpreted it like, as an instructor whose social media maybe isn’t your forte yet, or maybe you’re just gaining a following- and you know that you have everything. You know you have the certifications, you know you have been teaching for 12 years you know that you are teaching teachers. But then, how do you feel when you come across these other people who don’t have the same sort of knowledge or qualifications, but their following is just so massive that they’re able to get their message out. We’re not convinced that their message is the correct message, maybe?
Stephanie: I’m gonna say big picture now, I wouldn’t say that their message isn’t necessarily wrong. But I would say that my message is maybe more correct for some than for others, and that I don’t knock other people’s practice- whether you’re contemporary, or classical- it’s the connection you’re craving. If, at some point, you see other people’s things and you see their following and you think: “Their message sucks! They’re not classical, they’re not this!” For me, that would be a moment to turn and look at yourself and ask: “What is it that I’m feeling like I’m lacking right now that’s making me feel this way?” If you know yourself, that stuff doesn’t bother you. If you know yourself, you realize that the world isn’t a pizza, that there aren’t a set number of slices. There’s plenty for everybody. So just keep doing you, Laura, because first of all- you’re amazing. Second off all, there’s enough to go around. And you are amazing!
Victoria: Yeah, I figured that could tie-in to the psychotherapy aspect there pretty well. Lastly, this is another question that segues well into my “this or that” round, but Tara Campos wanted to ask: “What is your favorite Quest bar flavor at the moment?”
Stephanie: Oh my God. Tara and I have a love affair with Quest. I just ate a s’mores one before this interview, so I’m going to say s’mores, because it’s just so fresh in my mind. And now it’s summer, too. So, s’mores.
Victoria: I will say, if neither of you ladies have tried ONE bars- I’ve tried every single flavor, and you cannot go wrong with birthday cake. I have one a day- usually for breakfast- it is so frickin good, it is so, so good. It’s my protein bar. Neither Quest nor ONE bar are sponsoring this today, I wish that they would.
Stephanie: I wish that they would, because I single-handedly bump their stock.
Victoria: I have an Amazon auto ship-and-save for my ONE bars. I’m like yup! Keep ‘em comin.
Stephanie: It’s that fitness life.
Victoria: My clients make fun of me. I typically teach at 7am, and I bring one ONE bar with me and between each client I will take three nibbles so that it lasts me 6 or 7 hours. The clients will come back to use the bathroom at Real Pilates, because it’s right next to our office, and I’ll be standing in the doorway nibbling on my ONE bar waiting for my next client. They go: “Oh are you taking two bites of your ONE bar?” And I’m like: “Yes, I am! I don’t have time for anything else!” Because I’ve been eating it like that for so long, now I can’t just sit down and eat it- it’s too heavy to eat in one sitting.
Stephanie: Oh, no- see, I can eat like 5 in a row, so that’s unrelatable to me. But good for you!
Stephanie’s Speed Round
City or beach?
Sweet or savory?
Cat or dog?
Adventure or comfort?
Books or movies?
Nights in or nights out? Nights in with a Quest bar and a dog or a cat!
Summer or winter?
Tea or coffee?
Early bird or night owl?
Pizza or pasta?
Europe or Asia? So much I haven’t seen!
Spring or fall?
Breakfast or dinner? Breakfast for dinner!